Watershed Discussion

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Greetings cjervis (9/14/04 5:28 PM)
Log in under the PID and PSWD you got in class to post messages and questions for the class.

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Pandapas Pond Field Trip lsharp (10/19/04 4:26 PM)
Did we see any trend in the pH? Was it lower or higher in pond vs. streams?

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Field Trip Product cjervis (10/20/04 10:00 AM)
It is very important too that chemistry students remember that they will need to incorporate into their final product the biology data for the Pond and streams that the biology students obtained as well as the data from the Earth Science students. As complete a description of the Pond watershed as is possible at this time needs to be in the product.

This will include any patterns in the chemistry data. One possible pattern might address a comparison between all the methods used there for certain parameters, such as pH or DO, which were the most replicated observations other than temperature. Can any of you think of others?

Additionally, be sure to address the questions that were circulated on general parameters expected in this area and their sources.

Remember this is part of a throughline....we will do more with environmental chemistry, especially as applied to watersheds, as the year goes on.

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Development Site cjervis (10/21/04 2:30 PM)
Go here to see some spaces that you may paste information into...

http://teacherbridge.cs.vt.edu/private/users/cjervis/chemistry/watershed/Home


Try this....take ONE site. Organize the data into a meaningful format. Copy. Open appropriate page. Paste. Your login PID and PSWD will be the same as you used to get here.

You may have to try some formatting later. Let me know if it works.

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Watershed Part II cjervis (10/21/04 4:50 PM)
Go here to see a series of questions that you need to be wokring on:

Mountain Lake-Pandapas Pond Watershed Comparison at http://teacherbridge.cs.vt.edu/users/cjervis/biology/bioh/shedquestions.doc (to be part of the second watershed product, due November 23, 2004)

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Pictures from Pandapas Pond rbowyer (10/25/04 5:25 PM)
The pictures are now loaded onto the site. If you all want/need more, let me know and I can get more up. These are just the ones that Naomi and Shane though twould be appropriate.


Ryan

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Re: Pictures from Pandapas Pond mvaughn (10/25/04 9:56 PM)
How exactly do I access these uploaded pictures?

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Re: Re: Pictures from Pandapas Pond cjervis (10/26/04 6:45 AM)
Go here


http://teacherbridge.cs.vt.edu/public/users/cjervis/chemistry/watershed/Home

login, and click on selected photos.

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Re: Pictures from Pandapas Pond cjervis (10/26/04 6:49 AM)
Are they "creeks" or "streams" ? and anyway, what is the difference? remember citations.

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Honors Biology Site for More Discussion cjervis (11/29/04 2:50 PM)
Visit here for more discussion and posting opportunities:


http://teacherbridge.cs.vt.edu/private/users/cjervis/biology/bioh/waterchat

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Data Summary Tables cjervis (12/7/04 6:19 AM)
Here are three data summary tables for consideration:


http://teacherbridge.cs.vt.edu/private/users/cjervis/biology/bioh/watershed/Home

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Re: Data Summary Tables naomih (12/7/04 8:03 PM)
Mr. Jervis,
I'm interested in performing a statistical analysis on the dissolved oxygen levels collected at the different sites. I would like to perform a test determining whether or not there is a significant difference between the different results, but I'm not sure which test to use. Would a t-test be appropriate for use between the two ponds, and an ANOVA test appropriate for all of the streams?

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Re: Re: Data Summary Tables cjervis (12/9/04 7:16 AM)
That would be an excellent question to ask your stats teacher...for our purposes, I think the ANOVA would be better since you are comparing results from more than two sites using two different techniques (WWMD, Titration) rather than a series of samples using the same technique from sites.

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Water Temperature of Pandapas Pond rbowyer (12/7/04 6:59 PM)
Aight. Here is my post concerning the report. I hope that this is somewhat along the lines of what I am supposed to do.

I was looking at the recorded temperatures that Ashlea, Shane, Jeff, and I made at the pond. It was interesting to note that while the large pond was at 15 degress celcius, teh average temperature of the streams/creeks leading into the pond was only 12.6 degress celcius. (Creek 1: 10 degress celcius, Creek 2: 11 degress celcius, Creek 3: 12 degress celcius, Creek 4 and Creek 5: 15 degress celcius.) With this given information, I would like to draw a conclusion and ask if it is right.

The reason that the large pond had a higher temperature than the streams leading into it has at least 3 reasons. The first would be that the pond is stationary while the streams are moving. The second would be obvious... the streams are under shade from the surrounding trees, brushes... ect, while the pond had more direct sunlight. This would lead it to be warmer. Lastly, the pond is larger than any of the streams. The larger the body of water, the slower temperatures will change with the surrounding weather conditions. The streams will change faster to warmer/colder air because they are smaller and have less to heat/cool.

Am I right in these assumptions?

Thanks

Ryan

P.S.- Mr. Jervis: Our numbers are a little off concerning the temperature of the water.
1)11 (2)11.5 (3)12 (4)13.5 (5)15 versus (1)10 (2)11 (3)12 (4) 15 and (5) 15. Is the difference, although not that large, something to be concerned about because it could throw off certain assumptions/conclusions. I believe that the results that I have are the ones that our class used on the project.
Let me know.

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Re: Water Temperature of Pandapas Pond cjervis (12/8/04 1:20 PM)
Where did these numbers come from? A single set of measurements or an average of multiple sets?

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Re: Re: Water Temperature of Pandapas Pond rbowyer (12/8/04 9:33 PM)
Jervis, although I am not positive, I believe they were a combined set between what Natalie and her group gathered, and what my group gathered. Also, I think that your overall pond termperature is slightly lower than mine, if I remember correctly. This could also lead to incorrect assumptions.

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Re: Water Temperature of Pandapas Pond natalh (12/8/04 7:47 PM)
I think your third assumption is most correct in why the larger pond was warmer; though it takes longer for the water to raise in temperature, it retains heat longer as well.

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Re: Water Temperature of Pandapas Pond cjervis (12/9/04 7:26 AM)
The numbers I have are the ones you all turned in on the BIG CHART. From where did the averages come in the data table that you all turned in? Which measurements determined it? If those averages are not correct, you need to supply correct ones.

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Phosphates found in the Creeks scoleman (12/7/04 10:30 PM)
My question about the data we aquired at Mountain Lake and Pandapas Pond deals with the phosphate levels we measured. My question is, why did the phosphate levels slightly increase in streams 4 and 5 at Pandapas Pond and how would the Phosphate level of Stoney Creek at Mountain Lake compare with the other phosphate levels we aquired?

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Re: Phosphates found in the Creeks rbowyer (12/8/04 9:45 AM)
Originally posted by scoleman:
My question about the data we aquired at Mountain Lake and Pandapas Pond deals with the phosphate levels we measured. My question is, why did the phosphate levels slightly increase in streams 4 and 5 at Pandapas Pond and how would the Phosphate level of Stoney Creek at Mountain Lake compare with the other phosphate levels we aquired?


All of the streams at Pandapas Pond seemed to be coming from entirely different directions. Could the reason that the phosphate levels were different in streams four and five have something to do with what was 'up-stream?' Could it be possible that streams four and five have to go through a slightly different environment than the first three streams in getting into the pond?

Ryan

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Re: Re: Phosphates found in the Creeks cjervis (12/8/04 5:27 PM)
Which direction was 4 and 5 flowing to or from?

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Re: Re: Re: Phosphates found in the Creeks scoleman (12/8/04 8:07 PM)
Stream 4 and 5 are on the west end of Pandapas Pond and I believe that they were flowing away from the pond, at least that would explain why they were involved in one of the questions on our last project. Also, how does the creek at Mountain Lake compare with the creeks at Pandapas Pond?

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Phosphates found in the Creeks cjervis (12/9/04 7:21 AM)
Then 4 and 5 are draining the Pond and the rest are feeding it. That might explain the differences. Where would the phosphate come from anyway?

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Phosphates found in the Creeks scoleman (12/10/04 11:51 AM)
Would a large amount of salts and other substances containing phosphates already be settled in the pond and as new water enters the pond in pushes those settled phosphates out creek 4 and 5 and thats why they have higher phosphate levels?

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Student Comments cjervis (12/8/04 6:57 AM)
Can any other student in class respond to the questions? Are Bowyer's assumptions logical from what we know from earth science, physics, and (later in the year) chemistry dealing with heat losses and gains in water?

What about Coleman's? Where would the phosphate in the water come from in the first place? Why might there be a difference (if indeed it was a significant difference) like he mentions? Statistics people?

What about Bowyer's temperatures? Why are the ones he states "different" from those in the posted data tables?

Here is a chance for many of you to get the assignment done...respond or question.

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Pollution in Pond and Lake jfloyd (12/8/04 7:12 AM)
Mountain Lake vs. Pandapas Pond

Mountain Lake is more polluted than Pandapas Pond (even though it is 7x larger) because it has more human interference (motorized boats, activity, runoff, etc.) and less water flow (to carry pollutants out of the lake). Pollutants tend to concentrate at Mountain Lake for these reasons.

Does altitude play a role in this?

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Re: Pollution in Pond and Lake cjervis (12/8/04 11:04 AM)
Can anyone respond to the logic of this statement?

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Re: Re: Pollution in Pond and Lake natalh (12/8/04 7:59 PM)
Jeff...
are you asking about altitude...saying that the watersheds have an effect on the runoff? I can't think of anywhere else a connection between altitude and pollution would apply.

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Re: Re: Pollution in Pond and Lake alight (12/9/04 10:40 AM)
Wouldn't the hole in the bottom of the lake have something to do with this? From the information that i found there is no actual outflow source to mountain lake except for evaportaion and this hole in the bottom of the lake. So if theres no way for the pollution to get out then that would explain why there is so much more there than at pandapas where there are two streams leading out of the pond.

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Re: Re: Re: Pollution in Pond and Lake cjervis (12/10/04 6:15 AM)
What about Pond Drain?

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Re: Pollution in Pond and Lake naomih (12/8/04 10:17 PM)
I've read about natural pollutants--things such as mildews, fungi, even sediment from erosion. Assuming there is more wind at higher altitudes, there will also be more erosion at higher altitudes. This could result in more polluted water in Mountain Lake, as more sediment will be deposited in the lake at the top of a mountain than in Pandapas Pond, where there is less wind and erosion.

On the other hand, pollution may also be affected by run-off. This would cause more pollution in ponds or lakes of lower altitudes, as the run-off would drain into them. Mountain Lake would not be as strongly influenced by run-off as Pandapas Pond.

If these are sources of pollution in either Mountain Lake or Pandapas Pond, then yes, altitude does play a role in the levels of pollution.

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pH natalh (12/8/04 7:57 PM)
Why would the pH of Stream 1 (6) be lower than that of all the other pH samples? Excluding that one observation, the average pH was 7.75 (slightly basic). There aren't any other obvious differences between Stream 1 and the other recorded data points. With that in mind, would this one observation of pH be significant when making comparisons between the streams?

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Re: pH bwright (12/8/04 8:10 PM)
i think it would because it's part of the pond. The pH is the acidity or alkalinity of the streams. That's something that can't be discounted.

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Re: pH cjervis (12/9/04 10:13 AM)
This may be a problem with any conclusions we draw....one observation might not be enough to make any reliable conclusion.

However, do we have more than one observation on pH values here? Are there any other data to consider? Where do the observations made on your field trip relate to those made in the past?

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Re: Re: pH natalh (12/9/04 10:06 PM)
I used the data that was gathered with the WWMD Monitoring kit...although there was another set of data, we had to discount it because we decided the measurements were not accurate representations of the data.

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Nitrate level of streams bwright (12/8/04 8:19 PM)
Why wasn't there any nitrates in the first 4 streams tested and then 1 ppm of nitrates in the 5th stream?

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Re: Nitrate level of streams jfloyd (12/8/04 10:43 PM)
Maybe it has a different make up of the watershed? This may mean that it has a different amount of limestone vs. sandstone. If it has more limestone than would it provide more nutrients in turn making more algae grow? Would this produce more nitrate?

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Pond Temps alight (12/9/04 10:55 AM)
If the large pond and the small pond run into each other how come the two temperatures aren't more alike?

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Re: Pond Temps cjervis (12/10/04 6:14 AM)
What is the relationship between temperature and heat? Heat content and mass? Mass, heat content and specific heat? Can these give some ideas?

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Re: Re: Pond Temps alight (12/10/04 9:11 AM)
The amount of heat energy that is required to raise the temperature of one gram of a substance by one degree Celsius is called the specific heat capacity, or simply the specific heat., of that substance. Water, for instance, has a specific heat of 1.0 calorie per gram degree Celsius [1.0 cal / (g x deg.C)].
The amount of heat energy involved in changing the temperature of a sample of a particular substance depends on three parameters -- the specific heat of the substance, the mass of the sample, and the magnitude of the temperature change.
(http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/1410/lab-C-contents.html)

Maybe since one pond is smaller meaning that its mass is going to be smaller the mass is what is throwing off the heat difference in each pond since the mass is one of these 3 parameters?

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Re: Re: Re: Pond Temps cjervis (12/10/04 1:35 PM)
Yes, since the small pond has lower mass, then it will require less time to heat it up and it would cool off at a different rate (probably faster), so it probably would be at a different temperature than the larger one, all other factors being equal.

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Dissolved oxygen at Pandapas naomih (12/9/04 9:27 PM)
There is a considerable amount of variance between the dissolved oxygen levels of the streams and ponds. This presents several questions. Are these variances significant? Should they be significant? What causes the different levels of dissolved oxygen?

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Re: Dissolved oxygen at Pandapas cjervis (12/10/04 6:16 AM)
What do you know from past courses aboout where the oxygen comes from? What about the differences between running water and "still water"? Temperature and oxygen content?

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Turbidity? mvaughn (12/9/04 11:08 PM)
I saw that in the third stream that the ph level was higher than the other streams, it also had a higher turbidity percentage, are these two correlated in any way?

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Re: Turbidity? alight (12/10/04 8:41 AM)
Isn't turbidity the clearness of the water? If so then yes i think these to could be connected in some way because for the turbidity to be higher wouldn't that mean that the water was cloudy? If so this could be caused by runoff in which different minerals and things enter the water causing the PH levels to rise? right?

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